Magdalena Kapuścińska was born in 1964 in Łódź, where she spent her childhood. She is a chemist and after defending her doctoral thesis she worked at the Institute of Precision Mechanics. Her husband, Jan Kapuściński, was also a chemist and worked as an assistant professor at the Łódź University of Technology. In 1968, he lost his job at the university because he interceded on behalf of one student who had been relegated from the university due to political reasons. After being fired from the university, Jan Kapuściński started working on DNA under the academic supervision of professor Mirosław Mąkosza from the Chemical Technology Department of the Warsaw University of Technology. He did not cease his opposition activities and in 1969 he was arrested. In 1971, after being released from prison, he received an invitation to work with the New York University. In 1978, Jan Kapuściński emigrated to the US and one year later his wife, Magdalena Kapuścińska, joined him.
After arriving to the US, Magdalena had difficulties in finding a job. After having undergone a training program at the Brooklyn University of Technology, she was invited to continue her research and she commenced a PhD program. Soon, Magdalena Kapuścińska started publishing her scientific papers and the professor overseeing her research recommended her to several companies. Magdalena was employed at the Texaco Research Centre where she had been working for many years.
At the beginning of her emigration in New York, when Magdalena was looking for a job, Jan Kapuściński offered her to volunteer at the Józef Piłsudski Institute of America, an organization handling archiving documents describing the history of Poland and Polish diaspora. Magdalena Kapuścińska had been working at the institute for a long time, being the member of the board, and between 2008 and 2016 she was the president of the institute.
In 1989, Magdalena Kapuścińska received the Salute to Women in Industry award given by the YWCA (Young Women’s Christian Association).
In 1993, Jan Kapuściński decided to go back to Poland. He was employed at the intercollegiate faculty of the University of Gdansk. In 1998, Magdalena joined him. While being in Poland, she decided to compile her mother’s reminiscence. Later, she published them as “Przeminęło z wojnami” (Gone with the wars).
Interviewed by Karolina Łukasiewicz and Ewa Dżurak on 7th October 2015 in New York City under the „Greenpoint. The Transition 2015” project. More at cultureshock.pl.
My husband, Jan Kapuściński, fought against the communist system. He was a very talented scientist and back in 1968 he supported a student who had been relegated from the Łódź University of Technology. He was working at the Łódź University of Technology at the time. They relegated the student for taking part in a rally. He had organized the rally and my husband wrote a protest note to the provost saying that you cannot handle the case like that, you cannot let the student know he is being relegated from a newspaper because this is how this student found out about it. So, he came to us for help. In effect, a disciplinary commission was convened. The disciplinarian, professor Jan Michalski, involved with the party, demanded expulsion of my husband for writing such a letter. At the time, my husband was an assistant professor and his 3-year term was going to an end. Back then, in Poland we had those 3-year terms and then another 3-year term but with good scientific achievements and the fact that he was a lecturer as well, they didn’t fire people after the end of the term. After that another disciplinary commission was convened with professor Dorabialska, who had been working with Curie-Skłodowska, so she was a really renowned professor and she said that my husband should be reprimanded for writing an inappropriate letter and that he should stay at the university. Despite changing the decision, he was still fired, they didn’t extend him the 3-year period. Back then, he was almost finishing his post-doctoral dissertation. He was a remarkable scientist. And, he got a letter prohibiting him from working at any university in Poland. It was a tragedy for him. Afterwards, he worked with various associations. He wasn’t delighted with that but what could he have done? So, he was looking for a job and he found a really interesting offer. It involved synthesis of a compound called [ns 00:02:05] and used for identifying DNA. It was really helpful in anti-cancer therapy. As a chemist, he synthesised the compound thanks to professor Mąkosza, who was the head of the Chemical Technology Department at the Warsaw University of Technology. Janek would come in the evenings to make that compound. And he managed to synthesise it. It has been used until this day and there are thousand citations, so he was looking for a way to leave Poland because he had no chance of working there. It took him quite some time. It was 1968-1969 and he became so frustrated that he became involved... He got himself involved or something... The organization was called “Ruch”, with such members as Andrzej Czuma, Niesiołowski and the same people as him, and as a chemist he synthesised delayed fuse. They had this plan to set the Lenin Museum in Poronin on fire. Unfortunately, there was an instigator among them, so they were all arrested, my husband too. He was in prison for almost two years. When he was released, he tried to emigrate. Back then, I was working at the Institute of Precision Mechanics. I was successful, I had patents, I mean that my career was going really well but I knew that he has to leave. He couldn’t get a passport for many years. He was still being punished. When he got a job at an institute, they informed him one day before that his political involvement prevents him from working there. So, he was really frustrated at the time. When he got his passport in January, he almost immediately left Poland. He had invitations from Canada, from the US. He received invitations from the New York University, so he came here and started working. I couldn’t get a passport but, anyway, after one year I got it and I came here but I really didn’t want to go. I really wanted to stay in Poland.
I had a doctoral degree in chemistry, so I thought that I have to use it somehow, I was obliged to do so. It came to me to look for a job in the area, in New York, with professors and scientists who were the authors of the workbooks I had been using. So, I found professor Moravec, who worked at Brooklyn Polytechnic. I called him, and I said that I’d like to work with him for free. I just wanted to get to know American science a little, to practice my English because at the time I spoke only a little English. I had only passive knowledge of the language. I knew it because I had to read English scientific papers, but speaking was really difficult for me. So, I came there, I attended the seminar and I was introduced by professor Moravec to his colleagues and he said: “You know, Magda, if you want to work for free, you can come tomorrow.” So, I came and I was working there maybe a month or something when the head of the Inorganic Chemistry Department invited me to his office and said: “You know, Magda, you are working for free and I can offer you 14 thousand dollars annually.” It seemed to me as a great fortune. “And you will be working on a grant.” I said: “OK, but what kind of grant is that?” And he said: “Well, the grant involves studying various fossils and minerals because we want to prove that the world was created as a result of physical and chemical changes.” I am a believer, so I believe that the world was created by God and not as a result of physical and chemical changes. So, I left but I came back after 15 minutes and said: “Professor, I... It’s just that it’s not really my topic, I work on polymers.” However, the main reason for rejecting the offer was different. After that I started working for free and professor Pierce wanted to see me. He was of Jewish origin, a wonderful man really, and he said to me: “Listen, I’ll give you 12 thousand dollars annually, but you will be doing this and that.” And the topic was literary the extension of my doctoral thesis. So, I believed that somebody was watching over me, so I could work in my field under the supervision of a wonderful man. There were doctoral students and it’s a funny story, after a year of working there I learnt English with a Chinese accent because there were only Chinese there. Anyway, it was really great. I wrote five papers. I even wrote one grant. I think it was because professor Pierce believed in me so much. He used to say: “Magda, you can do it, so you do it.” After one year I had a good opinion. I just want to say that before I started working at the Brooklyn Polytechnic, I sent about one hundred applications and my recommendations from Poland translated into English and all I got was one call asking me what I want to do, etc. I didn’t get that job, so it was really hard, and I made the right decision working one year at the Brooklyn Polytechnic. So, professor Pierce recommended me to various companies.
Of course, we agonized about the Solidarity period at the Institute. It was... We used to collect all the newspaper clippings. It was amazing. I received a lot of Solidarity badges of honour, including a cross with an eagle in the background that I lost. In spring I was raking leaves around the house in New Jersey and I found it and said: “Janek, you’ll see that something good is going to happen today.” So, I got an invitation to an interview at IBM and Texaco. I said: “You’ll see that I’ll get a job either way.” And it turned out that I got two jobs. I had been working at Texaco for 18 years. I even received the woman of the year title. It was actually really funny because I was working on polymers, but I also developed additives to fuels and lubricants, but chemistry is chemistry, right? I was really satisfied with my job because I was happy that my products are being used in everyday life. I was glad that my lubricants, that my additives are the ingredients of oils manufactured by Texaco. However, at the same time I had been working as a volunteer at the Institute.
Magdalena Kapuścińska: I arrived and I was amazed. It was 1979, with all those big cars. Back in 1979 those New York roads looked very different than they do now. It was really hard to see such new, nice and small cars. They were just enormous. When I came here my husband told me... I already knew that we are going on a trip across the US. He got a car from somebody with a window shot and a broken exhaust pipe. He got a new window installed and somebody gave him some gold and black paint so that this Ford, this big and long limousine... He said: “You know, if we don’t go now, we will never travel across the US.” So, we went on the trip. 9000 miles by car. It was a wonderful trip.
Moderator: How long did it take you?
Magdalena Kapuścińska: Almost a month. Petrol was 59 cents back then. We had some things with us, a small Hitachi and a set of Campbell canned soups and we mostly ate that. We either slept in the car or on a camp-site in a tent. And now everyone laughs at me that I enjoy going to McDonald’s and Kentucky Fried Chicken. Why? Because me and my husband, we used to go to McDonald’s or to KFC twice a week. I really love this food but when I read the nutritional information I try not to eat too much. Anyway, I still believe that it’s really good food. So, we went across the Niagara Falls, Arizona, Colorado. We couldn’t see the Yellowstone Park because it was raining, and the park was closed. So, we were taking route one over the Pacific and then we came back. It was wonderful.
Polish diaspora? It depends what Polish diaspora you’re talking about. The old Polish diaspora, here in Greenpoint is the same, I think. But the Polish diaspora, the people who came here during the martial law really blended with the American communities. They were young, not burdened with time... The old Polish diaspora comprised people who had come here before the war. The new generation is numerous. People have good positions and they build America. It seems to me, however, that the Greenpoint Polish diaspora doesn’t really learn English much. They create such a closed community and it’s not good because you have to get out to people, integrate. I became integrated immediately because I knew from the start that I’ll go to an American company and I was really glad because my English improved and I gained a lot. Unfortunately, there are a lot of young people who come here because they won the green card. Women with higher education, a lot of them, and they just clean and I’m really sorry for them because it’s a kind of degradation and I can’t understand why did they come here. I don’t understand. But America pulls people in. It’s really hard to go back.
This is why all those people came here from Poland. They think that you can achieve anything in America. And they are right. I think that if you want something really bad and you work here, in this country, you always have a chance and you’ll get somewhere. You just have to have clout, you have to learn the language and then you get a chance. And, of course, you have to have a work permit. Sometimes, there are people here who have been working illegally here for 20 years. This is... This is why we cannot have visa-free travel. There was a time before the Union when people didn’t have the opportunity to work in the UK or in Germany, so they came here and stayed. I think that now less people decides to do so. I believe that there should be visa-free travel, but they know that there are a lot of Poles living and working illegally in the US and this is preventing them from introducing such a policy.
Those visas, I believe that the visa lottery is not right because people... because the American dream, well, in Poland we also have great positions, but the American dream... and somebody gets a visa. So, they come here, and they see it’s not all that easy, they don’t succeed and are frustrated. This lottery should be for Poles or other nationalities who have been here working hard, illegally, for many years. They should be given a chance so that they could stay here. Their children were born here. So, there are problems.
